Speaker 1: Welcome and thank you for visiting the Informatorium 56 podcast studio.

This location is dedicated to general education and information and features this podcast.

I am Greg Bell and my partner Julia Korony is here with me.

How are you today, Julia?

Speaker 2: I’m doing really well.

Speaker 1: Julia, what do you think of when I mention to you the backyard deck?

Speaker 2: I think of a wooden structure attached to the house and family barbecues and parties and late nights with a glass of wine, a little some string lights, just good old time.

Speaker 1: Yeah, to me I think that’s why this topic was interesting to me is because I mean really it’s one of the most social places of your home.

I mean I think of sitting out there at night in a dark night, the stars are out, you’re sitting there with a loved one, you know having a drink, relaxing.

You know a picnic during the day, you have everybody over to your house, you have yard games going on, radio music playing in the background, everybody outside having a good time.

It really is just like you said one of the most social happy places of your home lots of times, especially if you live on the East Coast because it means you’re outside in nice weather and having a good time instead of bundled up in freezing during the winter.

So with that let’s hit the rundown for the show today.

The topic is the story of the backyard deck.

We’re going to start at the beginning with the origins of the backyard deck and how the stereotypical American home evolved from 1800s to about the 50s where the deck becomes popular.

We will discuss some of the cool materials in use for making decks today and how some of those are made and we will take a couple detours and see how the modern grill started out and even what Marconi has to do with decks.

Then we will wrap it up with the summation and Julia’s big takeaway.

So let’s jump into the pod.

So the origin of the deck.

In 1459, a man named John opened up his back door, he stepped outside and immediately plunged four feet and twisted his ankle and said there really should be something here.

His last name was Deck.

Speaker 2: No, you’re making this up.

Speaker 1: No, nobody invented the deck.

So yeah, it’s not that type of thing where you know you invented you know the car, the motor, the pieces that go… it’s kind of a general progression and as we’ll see I think it pretty much just comes over from boat decks.

They’re very similar in style.

Speaker 2: So you’re telling me there’s no patent out there on the backyard deck?

Speaker 1: No, you are welcome to sell your own decks.

You can you know package them up and put them out.

You are good to go.

But if you follow through the Oxford English Dictionary you can kind of trace the origins of the word which is interesting and get a context of where it all started out.

The first appearance of the word deck is in 1466 and it’s defined as a covering.

It’s a Dutch word, it’s actually spelled D-E-K and then it says horse cloth next to it.

So basically it’s not in use at all anymore.

We don’t use it for that definition at all other than the fact that if you do look at a boat I guess if you think of the deck when you’re inside the boat I guess it would be on top of you.

But in 1598 is when the word does start getting used for a boat and it always has a describing term in front of it as main deck, middle deck, lower deck, upper deck, you know any part of the boat with the deck and sometimes it comes with a hyphen…

Speaker 2: All hands on deck!

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Sometimes it comes with a hyphen and sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes it’s just two words.

But that is where the crossover starts to come up.

Despite having 20 connotations of the word deck listed, Oxford does not define it as part of a home but it does use the word sun deck as two separate words in a quoted sentence from 1955.

If you haven’t used Oxford English Dictionary it’s what it does, it’ll define the word, give you the etymology by showing you sentences that it was used in with the date next to it.

And this one is from 1955: “The apartment has a big bedroom, sun deck, living room.” That is from Brass Cupcake, I do not know what that is, sounds adorable though.

But sun deck as two words dates back to 1876.

So this is why the crossover is implied here.

If you go back to 1876, Oxford defines a sun deck as A: a terrace or balcony positioned or designed to receive a lot of sunshine, or B: the upper deck of a yacht, cruise ship, etc., especially one designed or intended for sunbathing.

So you can see that’s where the crossover comes in.

And then they do also have a quote which I believe refers to a boat but it says “a splendid strong teak (steamer’s house) with solid panels framing two inches thick with twenty-five ten-inch brass sidelights and sun deck of teak.” That’s in Liverpool Mercury, like I said 1876, and as far as I know a steamer’s house I’m thinking is a boat house because every time I see the word steamers in that time period reading something British they’re referring to steamboats.

I think that’s the origin of the word and probably the concept as well because you know they were already doing this on boats and then when they started to make them fancier and they’re using them to hang out and you know get some sun, it’s really a natural transition to get one put onto a home.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 1: So that is how we got the concept and the word.

But the next part of the story is how did the deck develop on a home and become a backyard deck? So let’s jump into the rise of the backyard deck.

The 1950s come, the home is ready for a backyard deck but what’s interesting is how the stereotypical American home evolved from the 1800s to the 1950s to make room for and really almost need a backyard deck for a social space.

To me that’s interesting because it weaves together really the evolution of the American home itself.

So let’s look at how homes in the 1800s went from being designed for food-bearing vegetation and growing animals and involves into a modern home.

For the basic story of this I found a few sites online where people just give like a short history, mostly companies that make decks or install decks, and they all have kind of the same broad strokes.

They’re not full of citations and sources and everything so after looking at that I went back and was able to find a bunch more information and kind of just use that as like a structure for it.

So what we have, we start out in the 1800s.

So to set the scene we’re talking about a farming animal husbandry society.

You were going to have chickens and livestock in your backyard, you weren’t going to be hanging out back you know hanging out on the deck and having a good time.

In 1800 almost all Americans lived on farms.

In fact 90 out of 100 people lived on a farm in 1800 and basically the farms made the food that they needed for one family, they were about 10 acres in size and that’s really the starting point of how things were.

By 1850 people working on farms made up it was 4.9 million people or about 64% of the population.

This changed by 1950 down to 17% were working on farms.

And obviously what happened was industrialization.

The last decades of the 1800s industrialization comes and you go from having a few people and on a few houses on large plots of land basically that are just doing farming and subsistence and taking care of themselves to more small like a ton of smaller plots, more homes, more people are obviously not farming and have other occupations.

Speaker 2: Well and you also have mass food production which then in turn you know the big grocery stores so now you don’t need the chickens and the cow in the backyard you know I can just go to the store and pick it up.

Speaker 1: Yeah exactly because the farming just becomes more efficient and you’re getting more out of each acre so as opposed to just trying to grow what you need for one family yeah it becomes you know more of a business and then you’re growing it for everybody.

Exactly.

So in 1940 to 1960 this is per HUD the homeownership rate rose by over 18%.

So this last home stretch is where things really change.

It went from 43 to 61% roughly.

Incomes went up and you had the FHA helping with financing, transportation gets better and very importantly you’re going to have these larger farm plots being broken up into subdivisions and then you end up with obviously smaller plots, more homes in a condensed area.

Also when you start out in the 1800s your backyard was kind of a mess.

Not only were these animals out there I mean people were still using outhouses.

It’s kind of interesting to think about it.

I didn’t really ever look it up before this but indoor plumbing actually started in the 1840s.

Amazingly it took 100 years to get this rolling.

In 1940 half of houses lacked hot piped water, a bathtub or shower or a flush toilet.

Over a third of houses didn’t have a flush toilet.

As late as 1960 over 25% of houses in 16 states didn’t have complete plumbing facilities.

And that’s from the University of Berkeley, a man there managing the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, a gentleman there wrote a paper about this and it’s kind of amazing to think like you know you just it’s just a different world and it was a long time ago so I mean it’s intuitive but it is just a different world people are living in.

Like not only is size of yard but you’re also your backyard is kind of a mess.

It’s sewage out there, you have animals out there.

The last thing you’re going to be doing is hanging out in your backyard.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Another bit of change that happens to the home is the front porch.

The front porch was big in the 1800s, well much bigger than they are now at least, and they kind of go away.

And the it’s a general transition but I mean that’s where people were hanging out so there really was no reason to be using your backyard.

People just weren’t hanging out in the backyard, you weren’t going to be building a deck.

But front porches are kind of interesting.

If you think of you know older homes they would have large front porches, you have swings on it.

I’m thinking of watching Westerns and you know the guy comes over to court the lady and they’re standing there and it’s always like a swing and you know they sit there for a minute.

But if if you look at like Victorian homes you know they have these elaborate porches with a shingled roof extending over this this huge porch or like the colonials they have it over the front door just this this really big deck and they shrink… really big porch.

They really shrink down but you can find some that are just pretty enormous.

So the question is really you know what changed? And it’s a lot of things.

In the 20s for one thing entertainment changed.

In 1897 this is actually when Marconi received the official British patent for the radio.

And at this point this is when you see people they’re going to start transitioning from being on their front porch into their living room where they can all you know huddle around the radio and listen to Fibber McGee and Molly and you know have a good time and get the yucks.

But so and this is basically rolling by 1926 because Marconi actually had his own company but he had sold it to RCA and then in 1926 NBC Radio gets started.

I believe it started at the end of the year and then the next year is when they actually started doing the the broadcasting and everything but in name like they had everything rolling by the end of 26.

And there’s a bunch of NBC radios but in general, well it has divisions over the country and you know but in general that’s when they actually got the thing going was 1926.

So also putting a lot of pressure on the porch to leave the house is cars, garages and streets.

I mean when you get to obviously start progressing and everybody starts having cars we’re talking about just different needs from your home.

Now originally well obviously originally people didn’t have cars but when they started to have cars they would park them out back, the garage would be detached out behind the home so it’s just one more thing out there.

I read one source that said people were worried about their cars blowing up and it was one of the reasons they did that.

I…

Speaker 2: I don’t know if that’s legitimate or not.

Speaker 1: It’s interesting.

Speaker 2: Yeah it’s interesting to think of that you know because today…

Speaker 1: Well even if it wasn’t a thing I can see people being scared of it like oh my god…

Speaker 2: I know that stuff catches on fire, what if my whole house burns down?

Speaker 1: If they go 30 miles an hour their face is going to blow up.

I’m sure they’re worried about the car blowing up.

It does make sense but it’s just it’s strange to think of it.

But so garages did move to the house and become much more common and they also started to so they’re clearing the space out of your backyard but what happens is they start taking space from the front porch.

And I found an article here from a gentleman in a university and he has an interesting passage here where he says “As streets become more dominated by the automobile and less hospitable to people, a change began in how houses were designed.

New developments that were built around commuting by automobile and streets to support that turned to having smaller porches that were less designed as a social place and more a place of shelter while entering the home.

As the automobile became more accessible to the middle class, convenient access to the garage became more important.

The first attached garages began appearing in the 1920s and became more popular a decade later.

These garages were also still located in the rear of the home but during the postwar period automobiles gained even more popularity and garages were discovered to have an additional benefit: storage.

So they just really take off and as I said before obviously they move to the side of the home and again we’re just changing the structure, we’re taking away from the porch, no longer a place to socialize out there.”

Speaker 2: Also if it’s wintertime I you know you have a garage you don’t have to clean off your car, you just get in there and go.

Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 1: Yeah it’s really convenient.

That’s what I’m saying like it’s just it’s the changing needs of society are just evident.

Also interestingly if you look at tract housing if you want to be outside I mean that is really the end of the line when we get to tract housing which is like in the 40s.

If you’re going to be outside and socializing and hanging out it’s going to be on the back of a house.

I mean if you look at you know those large areas of these tract homes where they see tiny subdivisions I mean there is almost no room in the front of your house.

You have a garage, you have a little driveway, you have almost nothing.

So if you’re going to be socializing or having a good time you’re going to do it out back.

Speaker 2: Yeah and I imagine population has exponentially grown at this point and so you go into the backyard because you want some privacy away from all the cars going by, all the traffic outside and the fumes from these cars.

So you go to the backyard, you got a little private haven back there.

Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

I doubt that was much of a concern when you’re starting out in the 1800s.

Like I said you’re talking about 10-acre farms and you know a few million people you know five six million people living in the country.

Speaker 2: Well and at that point you’re on the front porch because you kind of want to see the neighbor, you want a little bit of social contact.

But now in 1950s I see you at the grocery store, I see you at work, I see…

I just want some me time in my backyard.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Yeah and by this time we’re talking about like 150 or so million people would be living in the country.

And yeah this is a huge transition.

I mean really if you look at the whole picture you have you know plumbing becomes more normal, sanitation, hygiene, people are now worried about that type of thing.

If they have animals or they’re going to have them in a barn, they’re going to move them away from the home.

You’re not using outhouses anymore.

People leave their front porch, garages get put onto the side of the home and like the extreme example of this is you think of a farm and then turn it all the way down to being a tract home.

You know I mean that is the extreme end of the progression.

So now what you have is a completely changed dynamic in your backyard and no place to hang out socially in the yard.

Interestingly around this time is when grilling becomes popular.

And I actually kind of wonder if it’s really actually why it becomes popular.

I think about you know previous in the 1800s you have your own farm, you’re living a different lifestyle.

I think by the time you get in some of these tract homes and you’re in these smaller lifestyles it almost I think it’s almost like a primal need in a sense for people just want to be like outside and setting a fire on their deck and you know starting to cook some food.

Speaker 2: Right.

And in the 1800s you didn’t have a stove, you actually had a like a hearth in the house, you’d make a fire and you’re cooking over you know coal inside your house.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

So what we’re going to do is take a little detour here into the grill because it’s an interesting story.

I like to think of I’m looking at a picture here of a grill in before the grill gets going.

So if you think of like the simplest grill you can think of, just describe it to me.

Speaker 2: Well like made out of the metal, four sides, rectangle or a square with you know little grill on there and then you have charcoal underneath.

Speaker 1: Yeah this is like and what they call them are brazier grills but that’s pretty much what everybody had.

And when I think about it I think there’s a lot of parks that I go to to run or you know walk around and that’s the type of thing they have there if you’re trying to imagine it, just these little like rectangular buckets made out of metal that anybody can come up and throw some charcoal in there and and grill some food.

Speaker 2: I also think of that because my grandfather built one of those for for our family and that’s what we used for decades.

Speaker 1: Oh yeah exactly.

And it’s I mean you can you can get it done.

But one guy who was actually into grilling in the 50s which is kind of when the whole thing started, before that it was really just a camping thing, people weren’t you know just going out back and grilling food, it was really only when they were in particular areas that it that it became necessary.

But one guy who was into it, his name was George Stephen, and George liked grilling but he got upset about the the food being cooked unevenly because he couldn’t control the flame.

You know if you think about those brazier grills there’s really not much you can do, you just the fire is what it is.

So he tried a brick grill and he put metal grates on it but he wasn’t happy with that, which is actually what we had when I was growing up by the way.

I don’t I don’t know why and looking back I can’t remember if I was happy with it or not but it seemed to function.

But now George on the other hand he worked at his family’s metalworks business and he was a salesman but he also got experience with shaping metal.

So what happened per George is he said “We were making dome shapes at the shop.

I took one of the domes, drilled some holes in the bottom and lid, welded supports to hold two wire grates and gave my strange-looking kettle-shaped grill a try.

It worked great.” What he was actually making them out of were metal buoys, I read in another place.

That’s one of the things that the company made.

But the company that he worked at was actually Weber Brothers Metalworks.

So he then added a grill division because this was taking off, his idea, and by the late 50s it was going so well he bought the whole company.

And that is how you ended up with Weber Grill.

So he was the guy that came up with this.

So yeah I mean this is like your classic American success story.

It’s a guy with a good job and means and he turns it into a better job and has better means.

Speaker 2: True Cinderella story.

Speaker 1: Yeah he exactly.

But he did give us all the grill so you know give the guy a break, he’s a good guy.

And actually looking at there’s pictures of him standing there with his grill, they say they still sell this exact grill and there’s a nice picture of George in like a tux standing next to it and everything.

But they did show the actual grill in a different place and it’s really bare bones but I mean that this is what he made is just when you think of like a typical grill just the you know it looks like a buoy.

It’s a bowl with a lid on it and you can kind of you know turn the dial and get the air to control it a little bit so the vents open up and close and it’s really just you know on three legs with two wheels you can roll it around, you throw the charcoal in there but you know it contains the fire a little bit more.

I think the size is almost you know kind of helpful too because you’re it’s not just a long rectangle, it’s just you know it’s all in one spot, you put your food there and then obviously you can close it and like I said turn that dial to control the vent so the air comes in, gives a little more fire.

But it’s more or less you know your basic grill you think about and you can buy something very similar to it today.

Speaker 1: So now, where we are, bringing it back to the big story.

You have your room in the back of the house, people are into grilling, so you’re into the 50s and now the deck is really when it becomes more commonplace.

Until about 1980, everyone that I looked at was saying, I really can’t remember that far back.

So I know we had a house that was ready for a deck to be put on it, but nobody ever did.

But they actually built that into the house and that house was built 73, 72, somewhere around there.

So I know definitely by then, but they’re saying in the 50s, this is when it really became common.

Now, until the 80s, they were more 8×10 affairs.

Basically, everything was made out of pressure-treated wood and it’s just like an 8-foot by 10-foot deck, which is kind of what the house that we had was prepared for.

Speaker 1: So let’s look at some of the cool things that are going on with decks and the materials and take a look at what you can get one made out of.

Deck materials.

I mean, who does not want to know more about deck materials? Am I right?

Speaker 2: I mean, I know I do!

Speaker 1: Okay, so that’s the important thing.

But now we’re going to talk about, we’re not going to talk about like building decks and, you know, the structure and blueprinting or anything like that.

What we’re always going to talk about are some of the materials because they’ve progressed and it allows for the more elaborate decks that you see.

And quite frankly, some of the things they do to make these materials is actually kind of interesting.

So, but let’s just start out with the basics.

The average cost of a deck is about $7,300.

It’s a 300 to 400 square foot deck and that’s about $21 per square foot.

So that’s kind of like where the just like I said, the average of what people get.

Now, the fact of the matter is size and material is obviously enormous in this.

I mean, you can get up to $50 a square foot, build a $25,000 deck if you want to, and people get really carried away with the exotic materials and, you know, all kinds of designs.

So you can really spend a fortune on it.

But when it comes to the materials, it’s really like the basics of what you’re going to pick is kind of obviously what you’re looking for out of durability, the maintenance of the material, and the aesthetic.

So obviously with the man-made stuff, you can get some, you know, longer life out of it, but a lot of people don’t think it looks quite as nice.

It’s come a long way.

They have wood grain built into it.

And then there’s the exotics, which kind of give you the whole thing.

I mean, they seem to last forever and they look beautiful.

Speaker 1: But let’s start out at the beginning where decks started out with just one of the most common materials for a deck, which would be pine.

Pine itself is not durable.

It does not have good resistance to weather.

It’s not going to handle the nature.

It’s not going to handle the bugs.

It’s going to rot.

Which is why they pressure treat pine.

And that is when everybody used originally for most decks when they were making them.

It’s cheap.

It’s $2 to $4 a square foot.

You can also actually make pressure-treated wood out of like Douglas fir and other materials, but generally it’s the southern yellow pine that people use.

But with that, I do actually want to take a little detour here and see the process of pressure treating because it is really interesting.

I looked it up because I’ve used pressure-treated wood a million times and it never occurred to me to actually dig into how it’s made.

Speaker 1: So pressure treating wood, in base, the basic form of it is you’re just jamming chemicals into the wood to make it more durable, okay? So that’ll make it resistant to bugs like termites, makes it resistant to fungus, and it also makes it fire retardant, or more fire retardant.

I shouldn’t say it makes it fire retardant, but more fire retardant, which is incredibly hard to say if you’ve never said it out loud.

But so the reason it does that is because the wood will actually char faster so it makes less smoke and then there’s less fire and then it doesn’t, you know, keep making the fire continue.

If you pressure treat the wood, it’s going to last like 10 to 40 years, they say.

Now obviously all this is going to depend on maintenance.

Speaker 1: But let’s look at how they actually make it.

There’s a company called Viance Treated Wood Solutions and they have some really cool videos online and they kind of show you how they do it to an extent.

And it’s a pretty basic process, but to set the scene, you’re going to think of like a huge parking lot.

It’s got a little bit of a factory-looking building on it and then there’s just piles of wood.

So in a sense, it kind of feels like you just pulled out back at a Home Depot, you know, or like a Lowe’s.

So the difference here is the wood’s coming in to get treated.

So that’s the first step.

They gotta bring in the wood, they source it, like I said, there’s particular woods from particular places that they use, and that’s the first step.

Speaker 1: The second step, they actually have to check the moisture level in this wood because quite frankly, if it’s not dry enough to begin with, it’s not going to absorb the preservative that they’re trying to put into it.

The next thing they do then is they tag the wood.

I have bought this wood multiple times.

It’s never occurred to me what was on this tag.

I mean, they cram the information on there.

It has the plant name, the retention level for the preservative, and then the preservative used, and then it actually has the trademark of a third-party inspection company.

So they, this is a pretty formal business.

They have to keep track of what kind of stuff they’re putting into the wood.

Speaker 2: I always assumed it was just a barcode that was on the end they stapled to it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I mean, maybe there’s two of them, but like there’s only, I feel like it’s just one tag.

I feel like they get that all on there because, you know, you always rip it off before you start, you know, painting or using the wood or cutting it.

So I just never really looked at it that closely.

But so, you know, after this wood, these, you know, trucks drop off the wood and they tag it, they actually have a forklift and put the wood onto a tram.

So the scene is basically a little train track that is going into this huge tank.

I’m talking like, I mean, the wood is piled up.

It’s got to be at least hundreds of boards.

I mean, it’s stacked up pretty high.

I couldn’t get a frame of reference based on like anybody standing nearby, but I would guess the thing’s like 10, 12 feet high, this cylinder.

Well, you know, it’s from top to bottom, left to right.

It’s not quite exactly circular.

But they take these big piles of wood and they put them on the tram and then they move it, they put a little more on the tram.

So I mean, it’s also really long.

It’s like rows of like 16-foot boards going into this thing.

Speaker 1: And what they call it is a vacuum pressure vessel.

So it’s a large steel cylinder that holds all these planks and then you close the door on it and then they have an industrial vacuum pump actually pull the air out of the tank.

And it’s so strong, it doesn’t just pull the air out of the tank, it actually pulls the air out of the wood.

So this tank is, you know, obviously really strong and then the pump is really strong and it’s sucking the air out.

After they do that, they flood the tank with the preservative, which is what’s going to make it pressure treated.

And then they apply force back into the tank to drive this preservative like really deep into the actual cells of the wood.

So that’s where you get those two steps right there was really, you know, you’re making this pressure-treated wood.

And then they drain the tank, they do a final vacuum on it to get the excess preservative off, and then it comes out of the tank off that tram and it looks just like the way you would expect.

I mean, it’s soaking wet wood.

So they let it sit there for a day or two to drip dry and then the stuff is ready to go.

Speaker 1: Now, what this gives you with the pressure-treated wood is a wood that’s not going to rot the way it did before if you let it outside.

And what they used to use is called, it was called CCA and that’s chromated copper arsenate, which is basically chromium, copper, and arsenic as I understand it.

The problem with that is generally people don’t love arsenic.

Long-term exposure to arsenic gives you cancer, gives you pulmonary issues, cardiovascular issues, and actually in 2003, the EPA banned it for residential use.

You can still get it in pressure-treated wood, but it’s not the common thing to use anymore.

Now they’re using something called alkaline copper quat, ACQ, and copper azole, something else, there’s another chemical.

I’m not an expert on chemicals, but basically it’s supposed to be safer when you use it.

What that gives you now with this new material is this more durable pine.

It’ll last longer.

You can apply a sealer to it.

You can put like mildewcide cleaners on it to take care of it.

As far as aesthetics, you’re going to, it’s going to be a green-tinted wood.

That’s what happens with the treatment.

But you can buy a stain and basically, you know, make it look a little more attractive and still maintain the grain, or you can get a thicker stain and pretty much make it any color that you want it to be, which is kind of convenient.

So you can get this cheaper wood and make it look like anything you want.

Speaker 1: Next on the list is cedar.

Cedar’s becoming really popular and it’s kind of an interesting wood.

It’s a little more expensive.

It’s $3.50 to $6 in that area per square foot.

But it is really pretty.

Lots of times they use knotty wood.

You can actually get cedar with knotty or clear.

The knotty is obviously cheaper and it kind of gives it that rustic feel.

If you think of like a cedar deck, like what would they make, just in general, what things do they make out of cedar? Like they make jewelry boxes, they make, you know, people use cedar just because it’s an attractive wood.

Speaker 2: I mean, they make closets out of it.

It smells nice.

It keeps bugs away, some bugs.

Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

It’s got its own like natural oil that helps preserve it and keep bugs away.

Speaker 2: And it smells good.

Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

It’s a very attractive wood.

So they started using it for decks and like I said, I usually think of like just and for me, it’s like this red-tinted deck.

You can see the wood grain, you can see the knots.

You know, generally you wouldn’t paint this so you can actually see that nice wood in there.

Now, also for some reason this stays cooler, so if you make your deck out of this, it’s actually a little bit cooler to walk on.

It’s great for durability.

Like I said, you have the natural resistance to bugs and weather and it can last, they say 20 to 40 years.

I feel like maybe there’s a cedar industry thing where they want you to think it’ll last forever.

You’re still going to have to take care of this.

I mean, you have to, you’re going to have to coat it either with a stain or some kind of protection to make sure it’s okay.

Now, it is durable, so you start to wonder like why is the whole world not just made out of cedar? It’s this beautiful wood, it lasts, it’s, you know, takes care of itself basically on some level.

And the reason is it’s incredibly soft.

You’re not going to want to use cedar if you’re going to be, you know, dragging stuff across your deck or you use it, you know, and you’re a little more rough with it.

Or I’d say even think, you know, if you have like kids that are going to be doing all kinds of stuff, it’s going to cut the wood.

I mean, you’re not even supposed to like, you gotta be careful pressure washing your deck if you have cedar because you’re going to cut it and put lines in it.

Speaker 2: You’re going to mar it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and put lines in it.

There’s actually a hardness scale for woods and it’s a very practical scale.

It’s basically made for like to know if you’re going to ruin your wood almost.

It’s called the Janka hardness scale.

And what they do is they take this ball, a steel ball, and they force it into the wood so you can see how much force it takes to like press into it.

And if you compare the two we talked about, like the western red cedar, that’s the cedar I could find on this scale, it’s at 320, whereas like the pine is almost twice that.

So and even pine is not necessarily considered the hardest wood in the world, but even that’s at like 870.

So it is a big difference.

Speaker 2: Big difference.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s definitely a different ballpark.

But like I said, they say you don’t have to do too much to treat it because it’s going to turn gray.

Like I said, generally speaking though, I think if you want it to look nice, you’re going to have to do a little bit to it.

Speaker 1: And then we’re going to move from there into the man-made materials.

Here you have your composites and your PVCs.

So when you look at a deck and it looks kind of perfect and it looks a little plasticky, that’s what we’re talking about here.

If you’ve never seen it, so it’s going to be, it’s going to look like plastic with wood grain stamped into it.

Now, if you’re looking at it from 30 feet away, it’s just going to look kind of perfect.

If you get up a little bit closer, you’re going to see that it’s not made out of wood.

Now, both of these products, the two they make are called composite and PVC.

They’re both man-made.

The biggest difference is that composite has a core.

So whereas generally speaking, PVC is a solid plank, the composite has a core and then it’s wrapped with an outer covering.

Now, originally they didn’t do that.

So they took the core material, which is like recycled plastic and post-consumer wood from most companies.

Not everybody does that, but that is like what people consider the socially conscientious thing to do because you can use these recycled materials and they melt them down, meld them together, and then you have the core of your wood and then you cover it and then it’ll last forever.

Originally they didn’t do that and what happened was you could see where the wood inner got exposed, it would obviously start to just wear with weather and you would get slight fading in your plastic.

Like if you look at like an older deck that was made a long time ago, you’ll see that where it’s a little bit faded.

But what they did to accommodate that was obviously they started putting a layer on the outside.

They call that capping the wood.

And that’s how most composite is made.

And at this point, they’re pretty much capping the whole board.

There is some you can get, and I think this was like the first step was where they capped the top of it so the water would roll off and protect it.

And at this point, they’re just kind of capping the whole board.

So it’s this core of, you know, like chipped up post-consumer plastic and wood and then wrapped with plastic to make sure that it doesn’t weather.

Speaker 1: The amazing thing about this is that they actually make that happen in one fell swoop.

There is this machine and it’s called a co-extruder and it co-extrudes the materials, which means it is taking that inside and making up that mix and then capping this thing off all in one fell swoop.

Did you, have you ever seen an extrusion machine?

Speaker 2: Well, not this one, but in my mind, I’m picturing these two materials, like the one in the middle, and they’re just getting pushed through this die and they’re coming out the other end just perfectly bored and they just need to cap the ends.

Speaker 1: Yeah, like if you see, so for me, the word extrude, I mean, I know what that, you know, I have that image, but I never actually looked at one of the machines.

And what’s amazing is I was trying to figure out how they were doing it and it’s kind of hard because really like the one machine they show you go into this factory and then there’s this huge like, I’d say maybe 30 feet long roughly machine.

It’s only 5-6 feet high and then it just runs along this long floorway, floor, almost and that’s kind of it.

And on one end, they’re chopping up this plastic, like the one machine actually does that, and then it just goes into this box that you can’t see and as it’s going down almost like a conveyor belt, you know it’s moving down the inside of the machine but you can’t see any of it.

And then on the end, it just comes out as a board.

And I’m like…

Speaker 2: It’s like magic!

Speaker 1: It really was.

It was like this is one of the most amazing things I’ve ever seen.

So somehow, yes, they are making that material and it is making the inner part together and then it is putting this cap on it and it’s coming out the other side.

How they make that happen is beyond me.

But I did see another extrusion process to make it a little bit easier to understand.

It’s basically like you just think of like a wall and it’s got a hole in it the size of the material you’re trying to make and then like you said, you just jam it through there and it comes out the other side.

So that’s how they are making this material.

Speaker 1: PVC, on the other hand, PVC stands for polyvinyl chloride and this does not have any organic material like wood pulp into it.

So they can use recycled plastics and these new polymers and they’re combined to create an extruded deck board.

They will actually put a cap on these now.

So where this starts and ends, I’m not exactly sure, but I know that there’s some companies that are putting a cap on these too.

But they didn’t exactly explain why.

I assume it’s for durability, but I also don’t believe it’s necessary.

You can just extrude the plank, but now they’re putting a cap on them as well.

So all of this is going to vary.

You know, some people don’t put organic materials in.

The one company was talking about using like, I don’t know, rice husks or something because they were saying, well, it’ll make sure that the moisture’s trapped.

I mean, there’s all kinds of things going on.

But generally speaking, you know, that’s the process for making the two versions.

Speaker 1: And the difference is going to be a little bit in the cost.

Composite’s going to be like $8 to $13 and the PVC can go up a little bit.

I’ve seen different estimates, but I actually looked up one board on TimberTech’s website and it was $18 a square foot basically.

So and it was nice, I think it was one of their nicer materials, but that’s what you’re looking at.

And then what you’re going to end up with is also as far as the durability is really the thing.

The PVC is said to be more water resistant and can last almost 50 years.

And the composite, they’re saying 25 to 30, so that’s like the kind of warranty you’re going to get on it.

Aesthetically, they both come in a multitude of colors.

They’re really nice.

It really is just a question of what preference is.

Do you actually like the look of wood? Because that you’re not going to get.

They are stamping like a grain into the wood, so it’s not going to look like an actual natural…

Speaker 2: Yeah, but with this, I don’t have to keep treating it and you just put it down and that’s that.

Just wash it now and then with soapy water and…

Speaker 1: Exactly.

So if that’s what you’re looking for.

I think, you know, there’s a point where if you have enough money, you’re like, well, somebody else is doing the work.

So I want this…

Speaker 2: Well, that’s true.

Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it’s like I want this nice wood to look like wood and go out there and paint it for me, you know what I mean? But yeah, generally speaking, if you’re doing it for yourself and you’re running on like, you know, average to modest means, that’s probably the choice you would take.

The problem is you gotta pony up more in the beginning.

So you’re going to be spending a lot more than the, you know, $3, $4 per square foot for some pressure-treated wood.

So it’s a big difference.

And then like you said, for the maintenance, they do the only thing you really do is you just clean it.

They sell one for both materials where you just, the PVC and the composite, and it’s really just a cleaner.

I don’t know that you need that, but they do tell you to do that and then it stops mildew and stains from occurring.

Speaker 1: So those are the man-made ones.

There is a challenge, like I said, to the superiority of those as far as maintenance and it actually also looks amazing.

And this is called Ipe wood.

That’s I-P-E.

It’s an exotic wood.

There are other exotic woods.

There’s mahogany, there’s a lot of things that people make decks out of.

This is not an exhaustive list.

Obviously there’s, you know, a million things you can do.

Speaker 2: You didn’t go into every type of tree and the hardness scale for each tree and…

Speaker 1: No.

This one though is extremely hard and it is interesting because just starting off of looking at it, it is gorgeous.

I mean, the wood just looks amazing.

Like it would be awesome to have a deck made out of this.

The grain is just so nice.

It looks, it almost looks like plastic the way they cut it, it’s so perfect, but it has that like natural wood grain in it.

It is really kind of amazing.

They say unlike other wood, it has almost no knots.

It’s a Brazilian walnut and it comes from Central and South America.

Now this costs, they vary a little bit.

It says $9 to $16 a square foot.

I have trouble thinking you’re going to be able to pull that off, but like I’ve never seen this at Home Depot.

You know, I’ve never actually seen it.

Maybe I wasn’t looking for it because I was never doing anything with it.

But it’s so it’s known for being one of the hardest, strongest, and most naturally resistant to rot, abrasion, weather, bugs.

It’s just one of the longest-lasting woods.

They say in some cases over 75 years this stuff is going to last.

Speaker 2: Wow.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

So like I said, you’re getting the no maintenance, you’re getting the beauty from it.

As far as the hardness, they say it’s 2.7 times harder than white oak, which is already a really strong wood.

So it’s just, I mean, you’re talking about really hard stuff and it’s really going to last.

Speaker 2: So that steel ball is not going anywhere in this wood.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn’t actually find the steel ball number for the scale for this one.

Speaker 2: They didn’t want to embarrass the steel ball.

Like, we’re not doing this test with this wood.

The ball’s going to break.

Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

But yeah, so again, it’s extremely low maintenance.

If you want it to be gray, you don’t have to do anything to it.

You know, if you want it to keep its color, you put a UV on it.

One of the big downsides to this is it is actually so hard, you’re going to pay more to get it installed.

You can’t just like drive a screw through this stuff.

You have to put, you know, pilot holes in and do it the right way.

So, you know, that is going to be a drawback.

It’s going to take a lot longer to put that together and you’re going to get charged a lot more.

Speaker 1: So those I thought were some of the more interesting deck materials and how some of them are made and just some of the interesting things about them.

And that is actually going to be the end of our story.

So I’m going to wrap it up here and we’re going to hit the summation and Julia’s big takeaway.

Julia, what did you find to be the most interesting part of the show? What’s your takeaway?

Speaker 2: So in my mind, decks are very much an American thing, very cultural American thing.

I really like exploring the history of how we got to this point because of the industry and technology we moved, you know, to the backyard and the privacy element of having that back space for your family and your friends and just to enjoy each other’s company.

And, you know, it essentially extends your living space, you know, and you can go out there and enjoy yourself and live a good life.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

I totally agree with that.

And to me, I would just add that for my summation of this story, that through that progression where you go from, you know, farmland and really no kind of leisure going on in the back of the yard with like a deck or something like that, and then you go all the way up to the tract housing where it’s like that’s really all you’re going to have.

Like you’re only going to have this tiny little spot in your yard if you can jam a deck in there, you know, that’s what you can have.

But if you look at where the deck itself has come and you just for instance just Google, you know, extravagant decks, and it is insane.

I mean, the amount of money these people are spending.

They have terraces, they have…

Speaker 2: Two-level decks!

Speaker 1: Yeah, it’s pools coming out, there’s hot tubs.

It’s rolling into a stone patio that probably cost $50,000.

So you have all that going on.

But the beauty of it is that even if you just have that like 8×10 on the back of your house, you really getting the same thing out of it.

So you don’t have to be a millionaire.

Speaker 2: Honestly, in New York, that 8×10 deck is probably worth as much as like a two-level deck in like Montana.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

But even if you just modest means and you have a yard, you know, you throw a small deck out back with your, you know, your grill, it really is, you know, one of the simple pleasures of life.

Speaker 1: So that will do it.

I would like to first point out that the sources that were used in this entry are all located on the website, that’s informatorium56.com.

If you would like to reach us, you can do that with the show email, which is informatorium56@gmail.com.

And I would like to thank you so much for visiting us here at the Informatorium.

We wish you a happy, healthy, and beautiful journey until we see you again.

Look on the bright side and good luck.

Speaker 2: Bye!